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PLCB Privatization Discussions PAWineTalk Forum / PLCB Privatization Discussions /

Washington State Privaization

 
Author Mark
Contributor
#1  Posted: Jun 2, 2012 08:34  

For those who didn't know, Washington State voters passed a referendum last year to privatize liquor sales. It took effect this week.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018296171_liquor27.html
Author Capaneus
Contributor
#2  Posted: Jun 2, 2012 17:22  

"Some costs going up Friday as private retailers take over liquor sales"

and

"The price hike, which a wholesalers trade group says could be 15 to 35 percent, comes as a shock to retailers and restaurateurs. But wholesalers say they need to cover increased costs and new investments."

Yay free market.
Author BeaverBob
Registered User
#3  Posted: Jun 4, 2012 20:01  

Again, be careful what we wish for.
Author masi3v
Registered User
#4  Posted: Jun 7, 2012 07:18  

I can cherry-pick quotes as well:

"Retailers and wholesalers are bickering about the expected price increases almost as fiercely as they debated the voter initiative last fall. Still, prices are expected to drop as the market settles and the charges that wholesalers must pay the state decrease."

Tried to order some wine that Siduri had on close out yesterday. Their response:

"Thank you for your interest in our special offer from Siduri and Novy Family Wines. Unfortunately it is illegal to ship wine directly to consumers in the state of PA. We have several customers on our mailing list that reside in PA, many of which have their wine orders shipped to friends or family members in nearby states such as NJ, or NY. However, until the laws of PA are changed to allow direct shipping, we will not be able to ship directly to you in Philadelphia. If you can provide us with an appropriate shipping address outside of PA, we would be happy to get you set up with an order for our mixed case special."

Yup, we have a GREAT system here in PA. Antiquated and anti-consumer. You guys keep burying your heads in the sand and cheering for the one-time "bargain" wines from off years and bankruptcies that make up most of the Chairman's selections.
Author acorelli
Registered User
#5  Posted: Jun 7, 2012 13:59  

I really do not appreciate the contemptuous tone, masi3v.
Author bigred
Contributor
#6  Posted: Jun 7, 2012 15:02 | Edited by: bigred  

acorelli:
I really do not appreciate the contemptuous tone, masi3v.

I agree, acorelli.
Author Capaneus
Contributor
#7  Posted: Jun 7, 2012 17:14  

masi3v
No cherry picking intended. Just went with the announced and impending price hike, rather than the vapid speculation on future market direction, about which I am frankly skeptical. YM clearly MV. For what it's worth, I don't think as highly of the free market, or as lowly of the PLCB, as you do, and we're both aware of that. Details available upon request, but I'm sure you've heard most before.

Sorry about your poor luck with the Siduri.
Author jlburd
Contributor
#8  Posted: Jun 7, 2012 19:22  

Apparently masi3v & cap have some history. The article is instructive about one thing that has been discussed here before: transition to private stores will suck & will take more than a few years to work out. What wasn't in the article was that WA received significantly (maybe dramatically) less in one-time license fees than expected.

If you want to sell me privatization on principle I have no argument but please don't tell me about windfalls for the state or great prices & selection by doing so. The former may not happen & the latter will take longer than we'd like.

I guess I'm most mystified by the Siduri response & the concept by some posters that we are trapped by the PLCB. Granholm assured that we can get direct shipped wine & as you can note from many posts at PAW there is much wine coming in to our cellars from nonPLCB sources. If you don't like what the state store has try the Internet. Not only can you get deals (+/-) but you can buy wine that is ready to drink from older vintages. I'm getting most of my wine that way in preparation for the chance that private stores might not be the solution just yet. Try it, you'll like it.
Author Tantore
Registered User
#9  Posted: Jun 7, 2012 21:33  

Burd a lot of wineries won't ship here because the carriers will sometimes bounce shipments. Why the carriers do that is an entirely different thread but not unlike the flood tax very stupid, self serving thinking. Most wineries worth their salt will not reship a shipment that has been returned for fear of damage. In some cases we are talking about thousands of dollars so they choose to stay out of PA. Adam Lee at Siduri is a very smart man, not to mention very consumer friendly. If there was a safe way, he would be shipping here. Maybe the fact that his wines are carried by the plcb further complicates the problem.
Author Capaneus
Contributor
#10  Posted: Jun 7, 2012 22:27  

jlburd: No history beyond a couple of group dinners I enjoyed. I just meant that my views on this are reasonably well known.
Author Capaneus
Contributor
#11  Posted: Jun 7, 2012 22:34  

Tantore: I'm not sure why, but the merchants and wineries I have found who won't do business with Pa are largely, at this point, Californian. Very few of the people located elsewhere I do business with seem to have any concerns beyond a modest legal fig-leaf, and of several dozen shipments I have had none interfered with in any way, by shipper, carrier, or The Man.

Given the Court injunction preventing the Commonwealth from enforcing the law, any fears would have to be over the legal regime at the other end...
Author Tantore
Registered User
#12  Posted: Jun 8, 2012 06:04  

Cap, I do 95% of my wine business with California. Im an active buyer on 40+ winery mailing lists from boutique to larger production places. The number of problems I have had are small. Last year I had a shipment from California returned by fedex. "We dont deliver alcohol to pa." This was a $2000 shipment. They would not discuss the matter. It was a retailer shipment. The year prior, fedex returned one from Delaware. Ironically one of the few outside of Cali retailers I buy from. In talking with winery owners in Cali and my friend Carrie at NapaValley wine and Cigar the volume in PA is not worth the risk at this point. Sure you could take it to small claims court but nobody has the time and its not enough money.
Btw Cap I buy a little Finger Lake, Oregon and Washington wine too and a significant number of wineries in all three states will not ship to PA. Anthony Road in NY quilceda Creek in WA and Antica Terra in Oregon are examples from each state.
Btw Burd you can ask Adam Lee why Siduri doesnt ship here. He is active in Wineberserkers.
T
Author Mark
Contributor
#13  Posted: Jun 8, 2012 09:38  

My somewhat-more-limited-than-Tantore's experience is that retailers are generally more willing to ship to PA than actual wineries. I suspect that it's the threat (perceived or actual) of legal action and/or losing the PLCB's business as Tantore mentioned that keeps wineries from doing so.
Author J2K
Contributor
#14  Posted: Jun 8, 2012 11:27 | Edited by: J2K  

Its amazing and interesting how many variations of retailers and wineries ship or do not to PA. But judging from shipments everyone has spoke about and completed from various sources, there are plenty of other retailers and wineries to purchase wine.

The cliche and common attack on Chairmans Selections being "off years" and "bankruptcies" is old and stale. Considering the thousands of CS wines over the years, there has been a range of good vintages, bad vintages, great buys, and terrible wines. That occurs at almost any large wine store. Whether a novice or a wine geek, why wouldnt you want a huge selection on different wines, prices, varietals,vintages?
There has also been some terrific values on bankruptcies so I dont know why anyone would complain about that. I have posted some of my PLCB purchases on Cellar Tracker forum and users from other states are sometimes astounded at the prices and offers.

I've been in plenty of states with independently owned wine stores. Seen some good shops and some I'm thankful for the PLCB. The PLCB premium stores also have a much larger overall selection than many of the private stores I've seen.

You may not get every wine you want due to shipping but thats probably a small percentage. There is plenty of good wine out there to obtain.

Im not flying the flag for the PLCB but we can all think of some great buys and terrific bargains we have purchased there.

Bottom line is--you are the consumer. You now have plenty of choices where to spend your $$ and which wines to purchase. Use the best of both worlds as many of us do- we have that liberty over other wine geeks. Enjoy and remember--its only wine!!!
Author bbgamer
Registered User
#15  Posted: Jun 8, 2012 13:09  

Personally, I would like to buy wines from wineries that have particular wines that I like and wineries that I know the wine makers. I also like to have wines shipped directly to me in cool temperatures and that I know the wines have not been sitting in a warehouse in 90 degree heat for months. I prefer to make my own choice which wine I want to drink, not what the state tell me my selection should be! Many wine that I prefer can not be shipped to Pa. The wineries do not want to take a chance or put up with the hassle. If you visit Wine Country most of the shipping stores will not ship any wine to PA. and you can't disguise it there like other areas. I guess price isn't my main factor for buying wine, I want to be able to choose what I want. Too bad that Pa doesn't control beef, they could make a list and tell us this is what you are allowed to eat!
Author Capaneus
Contributor
#16  Posted: Jun 8, 2012 17:48  

[b]Tantore[/
Cap, I do 95% of my wine business with California. Im an active buyer on 40+ winery mailing lists from boutique to larger production places. The number of problems I have had are small. Last year I had a shipment from California returned by fedex. "We dont deliver alcohol to pa." This was a $2000 shipment. They would not discuss the matter. It was a retailer shipment. The year prior, fedex returned one from Delaware. Ironically one of the few outside of Cali retailers I buy from. In talking with winery owners in Cali and my friend Carrie at NapaValley wine and Cigar the volume in PA is not worth the risk at this point. Sure you could take it to small claims court but nobody has the time and its not enough money.
Btw Cap I buy a little Finger Lake, Oregon and Washington wine too and a significant number of wineries in all three states will not ship to PA. Anthony Road in NY quilceda Creek in WA and Antica Terra in Oregon are examples from each state.
Btw Burd you can ask Adam Lee why Siduri doesnt ship here. He is active in Wineberserkers.
T
b]

Actually, I'd love to get that answer: not shipping to Pa makes no practical sense to me, given the legal framework right now. I've tried to pursue this with a couple of retailers (WineBid, you listening?), but I got no answers.

I'm going to guess you just order a whole lot more wine than I do - I get regular deliveries from both FedEx and UPS and not a single problem. I have no idea how it can be the case that they do business with, e.g., WTSO and Acker Merrall, and do not realize what's in the packages.

And J2K - you'll pry that flag from my cold dead hands!

I bought three bottles of Schmelz GV Smaragd today for $20 a pop - $40 anywhere else - if you can find it. No good reason 'cept the Commonwealth lurves me...
Author Tantore
Registered User
#17  Posted: Jun 8, 2012 21:31  

Cap they'd love you at wb as well ;)
I do order a crapload of wines and I used to think that it was the specific hub because both packages were stopped in Erie but I've had other stuff come through there clearly marked as alcohol. Who knows.
Fwiw I buy very little from the plcb.
Author jlburd
Contributor
#18  Posted: Jun 9, 2012 10:42  

Cap - I haven't looked up Adam Lee yet but I surmise T is right about the concern with jeopardizing a big customer. Like you I've never had anything kicked back but it sounds like it's a matter of probabilities & frequency before I do.

For those who didn't see it in the P-G our majority leader is putting a new plan in front of the legislature next week with the Gov. solidly behind it. I thought the earlier plan was just a political head fake but this may be more carefully thought out.
[url=http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/turzai-has-new-plan-to-privatize -pa-state-liquor-stores-639625/][/url]
Author Capaneus
Contributor
#19  Posted: Jun 14, 2012 15:57  

And in a mildly amusing rejoinder to the above exchange, "Siduri-Palooza" at WiredForWine.com.
 
 
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